How do pastors make people fall

Therefore, a minister will: Pursue Integrity I know, my God, that you test the heart and are pleased with integrity. Exalt Christ, not self. Be honest, not exaggerating or overpromising; peace-loving, not contentious; patient, not volatile; diligent, not slothful.

Avoid and, when necessary, report conflicts of interest and seek counsel. Speak the truth in love. Give due credit when using the words or ideas of others. Be Trustworthy It is required that those who have been given a trust must prove faithful. Model the trustworthiness of God in leadership to encourage and develop trustworthiness in others. Use power and influence prudently and humbly. Foster loyalty.

Demonstrate a commitment to the well-being of the entire congregation. Keep promises. Guard confidences carefully. Inform a person in advance, if possible, when an admission is about to be made that might legally require the disclosure of that information.

There are genuine miracles of God and they need you to discern if you know the word of God. This reader wishes to remain anonymous.

Would you like to comment on this article or view other readers' comments? Register Sign in. False prophets and pastors deceiving people.

When you are praying in their crusade they tell you to ask Jesus anything you want including cars, buses, businesses, good life and Jesus will give you them. Lets see an example of this licence for morality which they had changed: They preach prosperity, material things and worldly things. So nowadays we have ignorant people who disobey our Lord Jesus by buying products in the church.

And this means you buyers are participating in the evil act this pastors are doing. Turn away from these Ephesians Therefore, put on the whole armor of God, that you may be able to withstand in the evil day, and having done all, to stand.

The armor of God is belt of [truth], around your waist breast plate of[righteousness] fitted your feet with [Good News of peace] shield of [faith] to quench all the fiery darts of the evil one helmet of [salvation] sword of the Spirit which is [spoken word of God] praying all time in The Spirit being [watchful] I know two of the televangelists in south Africa who sells the products.

Pastor Zondo stop preaching about material things, smart clothes because you told your congregation that you love smart things, smart clothes like Nigerians clothes etc. Mboro stop telling your congregation to call your name when you cast out demons! You are not the messiah!

Is the pastor a healer? There are different kinds of machines inside the tv and you put your hands on it to receive the healing from which god? Is God inside the tv? Again pastor Irene told people that every family should have the decoders so that they can see the work of the Lord. Exodus You shall not make for yourselves an idol, nor any image of anything that is in the heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth :5 you shall not bow yourself down to them, nor serve them, for I, Yahweh your God, am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers on the children, on the third and on the fourth generation of those who hate me, My friends this is the deception of the devil to gather himself poor souls so that they can parish with him.

Not sit around being fat sheep, nor being fat equippers, or fat elders…. Ezekiel 34 speaks volumes to the Elders overseers shepherds, as out lined in 1 Peter 5. Spot on, brother. Amen, and many Pastors that are fearful to trust delegation, and run a one man show, perhaps due to insecurity.

You are discrediting the work of shepherding. Numerical growth is of God. Spiritual growth is the work of the pastor. Sorry dear one.. They are called by Jesus to be the equippers of his sheep, not the care takers, that is the elders job. Wear more than one hat can be a problem and a conflict of interest. Excellent stuff. How did you go about teaching your members to shift the mindset, and training them to shift their pastoral care to groups? What was your process? Sermons, small groups training, etc?

Yes, formal roles in church life are needed, but the informal roles within the church are the most important. I agree. Pastors are expected to do more than they were called to do. But they need to teach their congregations to actually be the church. The many various individual christian churches all have their own congregations flocks with their own pastors shepherds and teachers, all claiming they are part of the one true church and that they are working for Jesus.

But rather, the christian pastors and Bible teachers and theologians are simply the blind leading the blind, and have led the religion of Christianity into a pit of darkness. The truth is that Messiah Jesus is the only good shepherd, the One Shepherd Pastor of his one flock; our only Master and Lord; our One Teacher, and we are all brothers and sisters with One Father who is in heaven John , 16; Ezekiel , ; Isaiah ; Jude ; John ; Matthew — we are disciples of Jesus, not members of the religion of Christianity.

We are the true worshipers who worship the Father in spirit and in truth, rather than in church buildings and with empty rituals. John ; Isaiah See John , 27; Jude , 11; Matthew Jude ; see also Matthew , If we wish to enter into life, we would be wise to listen to the voice of truth, and leave the blind guides:. And if the blind lead the blind, both will fall into a pit. And then come follow the Light of the world, so that you might have the light of life, and no longer walk in darkness; for his words will set you free from the darkness and deception if you are willing to listen and obey them.

John , , If people duck out of the services during the final hymn in order to beat the crush in the parking lot, that church is too big for me. For just as each of us has one body with many members, and these members do not all have the same function, so in Christ we, though many, form one body, and each member belongs to all the others. We have different gifts, according to the grace given to each of us. If your gift is prophesying, then prophesy in accordance with your faith; if it is serving, then serve; if it is teaching, then teach; if it is to encourage, then give encouragement; if it is giving, then give generously; if it is to lead, do it diligently; if it is to show mercy, do it cheerfully.

And God has placed in the church first of all apostles, second prophets, third teachers, then miracles, then gifts of healing, of helping, of guidance, and of different kinds of tongues. Are all apostles? Are all prophets? Are all teachers? Do all work miracles? Do all have gifts of healing? Do all speak in tongues? Do all interpret? So Christ himself gave the apostles, the prophets, the evangelists, the pastors and teachers, to equip his people for works of service, so that the body of Christ may be built up until we all reach unity in the faith and in the knowledge of the Son of God and become mature, attaining to the whole measure of the fullness of Christ.

If we believe the Bible and we can understand the clear language that Paul has given to no less than three of the early churches, then we see that Christ himself has give different gifts to different people. That simply is not Biblical. A man who has been given the gift of being a teacher may not have the same gift of being a pastor.

A man with the gift of being a pastor may not have the gift of being a preacher. The man who has the gift of leadership may not have the gift of being an encourager. If the head of a local church is given the gift of leadership and guidance, and he appoints someone to preach the word on Sundays and another to be in charge of visitation, how many would accept that in our church culture?

And yet, if he is using his gifts and he is allowing others to use their gifts, he is doing the right thing. Putting the pressure of running a church on a single man is not what is taught in the New Testament. The New Testament teaches that various gifts are given to various people so that the church can run effectively.

Even near the very beginning of the church, the Apostles appointed seven men to run some of the pastoral duties of the church in Jerusalem. Good pastoral care is the main reason why broken, vulnerable and needy people come to church in the first place and stay. The world watches how we deal with each other.

I am utterly fed up with silly headlines putting pastoral carers down and implying that bigger is always better. If all those people who travel miles to go to a mega church where they can hide in plain view actually committed to living their lives in the communities where they physically live, showed true loving pastoral care to those who will also know them through and through, THEN the Church will be known by its love of each and love of others and actually be noticed for all the right reasons.

Stop knocking it. I can sense your aggravation with this topic and I understand your view. I will try and answer your response with respect and with the love of Christ—knowing we are brothers. As an ex-church planter, current church planter trainer, a pastor, and now a revitalization pastor, I agree with Carey.

He I believe I am reading his article correctly is stating that to further the gospel, churches can reach more people by making sure that pastor is focused upon leadership training which includes pastoral care training , preaching the gospel, and intentionally being a part of community. As a pastor, I have to work hard and deliberately to set aside time to meet new people non-believers , outside of my circle of influence.

I do this in many ways, but understand fully what Carey is stating. I could be reaching even more people with gospel, if I were training members to reach and serve the community, and while doing that, having a pastoral care team that can effectively care for the needs of the flock.

The problem is our broken clergy model—which heightens the role, expectations, and duties of the senior pastor—to do it all. If more laity were empowered Eph 4 , the church would be reaching and connecting to a far greater amount of people. Instead of surviving, the church would be thriving. First, we are not brothers Matt. I am not male. Second, the title of this article is deliberately downgrading the importance of pastoral care in churches.

Fourth, the point that we can agree on is that the over reliance on the clergy to essentially do the work and ministry of the laity should be doing as well as the leaders not instead of is a big problem in many churches. Empowering the laity is a major challenge and many of us now are reaping the fruits of teaching and practices that elevated the ordained leader to a position they should never have had. I am clearly responding to an article that is downgrading the importance of a church leader having a pastoral heart.

You need to read replies in the context of the discussion. I think you missed the whole premise. We have been given a Great Commission to go and make disciples. This means that we are seeking to reach people far from God with the Gospel. A shepherds job is to care for the sheep, yes… but he should also be making sure his sheep are reproducing..

Just a thought. Let me give you an example of what CEO teaching Pastors do now.. A man in his church has to have emergency open bypass surgery but CEO Teaching Pastor cause he is too busy on his twitter, blog ect. Well that visit is never made, nor does the CEO Teaching Pastor never call himself or come cause he thought his assistant to the assistant did it for him. I think we have very different definitions of pastors. Maybe caring for more people by scaling your church means you actually care more.

Carey, I really think that your definition of pastoral care is more in keeping with the corporate structure than it is with Biblical truth. My 48 years as a pastor convinces me. Complication 2 applies to other groups—such as the Jaycees or the Lions Clubs. I used to belong to Jaycee and Lions Club organizations, and they wanted me to serve as a puppy—not as a leader. The Jaycee chapter to which I belonged is now defunct and the Lions Club to which I belonged is dying.

I failed at being a real leader, and so did my groups. Pastoral care is a fundamental aspect of church ministry which should not be neglected. Other churches seem to maintain their numbers, but do this by continually bringing in a constant stream of new followers.

Clicks form, and ultimately, the churches exit door is just as big as the entrance. As living the Christian life is much more akin to a marathon than a sprinting race. It does not matter how many people you have sitting on seats, in your church, if there is no longevity. Pastoral care, is often critical, but also overlooked aspect of ministry. It is essential for maintaining the Church.

From many examples of those situations sighted weddings, funerals, illness, relationship problems, etc. Good pastoral care should be happening continually, everyday, and before people reach these life stages. Hard to do, and impossible for one person. The real key is to enlist the help of others. By encouraging, and equipping the lay community to take on leadership and ministry roles for themselves.

I think most Christian communities need to let go of the personality cult. The church pastor is not superman, and he is not the only pastor. His job is not to minister, but rather, to train others in how to do it. This is exactly what Carey said. He said you train people up to do the pastoral care in the trenches through grouplife initiatives.

We care for each other, not the pastor cares for everyone. Sighting, at the begining of his article, that the vast majority of churches with congregations smaller than people is a problem. I would firstly like to ask the author why he believes that a person church is undesirable.

It seems clear to me that if people is the optimum size for pastoral care, then this is a good size to have. Kingdom growth simply means that you have more of them.

Another point which I picked up from the language is the general lack of emphasis on training and equiping. The author seems to be advocating the wholesale delegation of pastoral care; but not giving a clear picture on how those needs are now to be met. But in restructuring a church, careful consideration needs to be given to how these needs are now to be met. I do appreciate that the author could have perhaps been deliberately provocative with the title of this article.

But I do also detect a subtle idolatry creeping into this line of argument. An idolatry which should be identified and addressed. Raising up other followers of Jesus who do the same is the goal. We need to do this in smaller groups and one on one whenever possible. Having home groups in a larger church is a good way to do this. Healthy accountability, as opposed to disfunctional accountability is the way to do this.

Regarding pastoral care, it seems pretty simple. Those with the gift of leadership… lead. However, each has our unique calling. Just like all of us give, not all have the gift of giving. All of us are to serve, but for some, it is their principle gift. All of us are to show compassion mercy but some have this in abundant measure.

If the entire body fulfills their calling, we have… the body of Christ. If someone primarily is called to pastoral care, it might be difficult to adequately fulfill other role such as teaching, vision casting, etc. Get all believers on the right seat on the bus, and it will go as far as God intends. This is why he gives us spiritual gifts!

This is a good article, but an even more fascinating discussion. The basic question seems to come down to what God wants for the church. Perhaps love God, then neighbor and self? Perhaps feed the hungry, clothe the naked, give water to the thirsty, shelter to the stranger, and visit the sick and the prisoner. Many churches have turned these directives upside down. Love us, pastor.

Feed, shelter, and visit us, pastor. A church that follows these clues will be active in its community and will attract new people through its service, and grow.

What matter is how the church cares for the community in which it lives. Corey is absolutely right. The pastor is called to lead and model and equip the church for this service. Thanks Corey for this article, this is so true. I serve a church that was wise enough to realize that congregational care could reach much further than pastoral care alone. I, as senior pastor, still provides care in urgent and important situations, but trained, gifted lay persons provide the on-going care.

Thanks to the faithfulness and leadership of these lay leaders and the power of God, our church has been able to grow well beyond the barrier, and God willing, will keep growing and reaching new people. The Seminary approach to providing church leadership is contra-biblical——-Disciple Making is the Biblical method. If you do not understand that, you have much learning to do. Another way to through the pastoral care trap is to embrace the New Testament concept of ekklesia where Christ-followers serve and minister to one another.

Thank you so much for this article. Much of the problem lies in the language we use. I believe the word for this is abomination. I used to go to a church just like this. After 17 years, 5 different pastors, prayer meetings giving way to the pastor teaching instead, I realized I had to leave in order to come alive spiritually again.

Also my children needed to see a more Biblical model so they could live too. She now wants to go to Uganda for a long-term mission.

More money […]. Sure, leadership is an important part of pastoral work, and delegation is a good part of leadership. It is perfectly fair to criticize pastors who fall into the trap of loving to be needed pastoral idolatry?

Some people get too dependent on the pastor. Others like me never see the pastor nor any care. There is a thing as too little pastoral care. I have never really seen it unless I was at the hospital visiting a grand parent when clergy came. For all the committee meetings and time consuming nonsense, there needs to be some care about ordinary people. Yet why should my opinion count? I see your premise as flawed. It is NOT measured by programs or buildings. One who loves Jesus obeys His Word.

In the pastoral epistles the directive is to feed His sheep. Preach the Word. Feed the sheep—not the goats. Feed the sheep—not entertain the goats. Spend your time preaching the word of the Cross which is the power of God for salvation. Get over yourself. You are not Christ. You are not the reason the church exists.

You are not the one that saves anyone. Repent of your self-serving nature and return to your first love, if it is. God will add to the number of the church. As the senior leader of a congregation I have frequently seen Pastors do the inverse of what God is doing. It may seem odd but I see true pastoral care like Paliative Care — comfort them while they die.

God is trying to lead us to the cross and die to ourselves but instead, many are busy trying to keep alive what ought to die. Without diving too deep into the atonement; I see the cross as helping us understand how we can overcome realities that seek to denigrate, demoralize, and destroy us. The focus should not be on the cross, but instead on the redemptive and empowering message of transforming the stories and symbols of our lives so that we may serve in our fullest capacity.

I am flabbergasted by this response. Pastoral care is not evangelism, nor should it be, ever, ever, ever. To evangelize during a crisis is an abuse of power and abusive to those who hurt, and that is nowhere near leadership in my book.

God bless you Jason but you might be confused. Are you responding to me or someone else? Palliative care is by nature comforting and loving. Buck up? These are your words. My initial point was to underscore the call to deny ourselves and carry our crosses.

No one is denying proper relational care, it is the Christ Complex too many people walk in which is being addressed in this article. Thank you for your clarification. I appreciate your ability to stick to the topic at hand.

Thanks for your reply. I see a lot of defensiveness in some of the negative responses to this article. Like we all often do, some of these have drawn from other conversations and interactions not present here.

This results in an unfair polarizing as we assign to others dimensions of meaning not contained in their response. Just to clarify what I am saying — there is a model of ministry driven by a needy self-serving people which is happily being filled by others who want to be needed. This does not necessarily invalidate anyone unless the shoe fits. The motive of everyone who serves is the pivotal issue here. Like the mother who does everything for their children there comes a time to call people to own their lives.

This is not uncaring but an expression of selfless courage, assuming it is being done properly… Granted a large assumption. But just because some are not doing it correctly does not suggest it cannot or does not have to be done. The Bible is not a book of inspirational stories for people to apply to their own lives.

Turning the Bible into a self-help book is mere idolatry. God died an agonizing death on the cross? Are you saying God is dead now? Or that he thought he would be? As this is happening, they feel forsajen and hopeless. The only body they have is broken and a source of torment.

They wonder if these are the last moments of their existence. His body hurt horribly, but it was just a costume and would soon be shed and never borne again. He just had to hold on for a little while longer. These do not sound like the same experience to me. Can you please explain to me how God can suffer like a human being? Are you requiring Eli to provide the extended details of your two paragraph description of being crucified each time he mentions Christ Crucified?

Which is not relevant to his comments. I beg to differ. Reading the Bible as a book of stories that are often fictional but nevertheless inspiring stories is exactly what I do, and the reason is because claims such as that the Creator of all that is could possibly experience the same suffering as mortal, embodied beings make no sense to me.

Eli has not supported his claim, IMO. Then you do not consider the Bible as inspired by God? If so, then it has no authority than any other book, and all that is written there does not have the signifigance that millions of believers have accorded to it. This will be my last reply, as this does not feel like a sacred and safe place to disagree and talk about those disagreements, while feeling heard and valued. This is the reason why I usually delete these articles from my facebook feed, and for now I will return to that practice.

I can appreciate the different ways that we all approach faith, approach God and Jesus; I am glad you find value in the words you speak and that it gives you life and passion. If I communicated anything differently, then I accept responsibility for that. Thank you for time and effort in these places, for expressing your points of view. I hope they continue to provide you with the sustenance you need to experience the active love and presence of God in the worlds you reside.

If not, then I regret misreading your ambiguous stance. Are you serious, Jason? Please tell me you are joking? Upon that cross the King of Kings, out Sinless Savior laid down His life and our sins were the nails that were driven into His body. He suffered and died willingly for us, so that we may be forgiven for our sins and reconciled to the Father, as sons and daughters.

What I think he is asserting is that they become ranchers instead of simply shepherds. Think of the early church in Acts 6. The apostles recognized as the church grew, they could no longer handle being fully involved in the care aspect food distribution and also remain fully committed to the teaching of the word.

So they became ranchers. They simply said we need to delegate so it is done well. What was the result? The number of believers greatly increased in Jerusalem, and many of the Jewish priests were converted, too. Because they created a structure conducive to growth, growth occurred. The Bible calls pastors shepherds, not ranchers.

If the church is too big for a pastor to adequately care for all his flock, a new church should be formed. This is a huge problem in the church. Every member of the church is a priest with Christ as our high priest. To expect the pastor of a church to care for you and not be expected to also be a minister of care is unbiblical. A flash of light from heaven blinded him, tossing him to the ground out of pure shock.

Saul was shook in that moment! So much so, he literally went from persecuting Christians to committing his life to spreading the Gospel—all because of a divine encounter with God himself. Sometimes God calls people the same way. But hear me: Not everyone receives this call.

Although a dramatic event is what many people think of when they hear about God calling people into ministry, the Damascus Road call is one of the rarer types of calls. The Progressive Call is the most common type of call today. This calling involves a gradual sequence of events across your life until it finally dawns on you that fulltime ministry is what God wants you to do. It could begin with growing up in the church, and naturally having a deep passion for loving people and telling them about God.

You start assisting with games, leading a small group, and even giving announcements on some nights.